Gay Marriage
The following was in response to a satirical post regarding gay marriage which belittled any person who was opposed to it as though there was in fact no legitimate argument and those opposed must be blind faith fools. My response is below in italics.
I will try to avoid my usual rant... lol. But there is something I would like for you to consider on this topic. I am personally opposed to gay rights. However, I can set that aside and would in fact be able to tolerate "civil unions". Here is the point often missed by the liberals who call those opposed to gay "marriage" homophobic. A civil union is a binding contract set forth between two persons and the government. A marriage is not dissimilar to a civil union with one major exception. Marriage is not a secular and legal institution, which happens to be recognized by theology. It is, in fact, the other way around. Marriage is a theological institution recognized by government. As such the only entity that should be permitted to define marriage is the church not the government, & not the courts. Governmental authority and the religious authority are two independent entities that recognize one another. Police officers and firemen recognize one one another's jurisdiction and authority, but that doesn't mean that a police chief can determine that the fire dept. can't use water to fight fire cause he has seen C.A.F.S. and likes it. It would still be the responsibility of the FD to select a method of extinguishment. A constitutional amendment banning gay marriage is nothing more than a police chief (the central government) telling his patrolmen (local politicians & judges) that they aren't firemen (clergy), so don't try to run the fire department. Allowing gay marriage is indeed offensive to me as it conflicts with my biblical belief that homosexuality is wrong as is clearly stated in Leviticus.
Let it be known that I am just as opposed to divorce, as I am to gay marriage. Fifty-five hour marriages are ridiculous. I am far from a model citizen or a model Christian but I am not the standard of truth.
p.s. Truth be told in my personal opinion I am opposed to gay civil unions as well as gay marriage, but I will not fight civil unions as they are a secular union set forth by the government and as such the government has the right to set its own parameters by which it operates, just as the church should have the same right.
By the way thanks for the congrats on my son! We are both so excited words can't even begin to scratch the surface of how we feel! If this argument seems a little scattered it is cause it is midnight and I am trying to type one handed with Christian in my arms... lol
Christopher
This was written to a firefighter, so for those who aren't firefighters allow me to explain a couple of things. 1st, when on the scene of a fire the property is in fact the full property of the on scene fire department until they release that scene. If you call the fire department to your home for a smell of smoke the fire department fully owns your home till they release it to you. This is where the police recognize the fire departments authority.
And C.A.F.S. stands for Compressed Air Foam System. C.A.F.S. is a relatively new tool in firefighting and it is quite effective but it is not the end-all way to fight fire. Sometimes water is the best tool, sometimes C.A.F.S., sometime dry chemical, it is all dependant on what resources are available and what the situation dictates
Katie McAllister
Christopher you never stop amazing me. That was very well written. Thank you for tonight. I am still hurting but its helped some. I know that in time I will be ok. I love you to death. God bless you.
~Nicole~
I must say that I did NOT read this whole thing cause I am trying to cook dinner, but I must say you write very well. Anyways, I guess we all have our very own opinion about life in general and all that falls under that catergorey. Anyway...I think that Gay men and women have hearts and have feelings like every other human alive (well most of us anyways) and I think that if they want to call what they have a marriage or by God do it....then more power to them! Who am I or you to tell these people that it is wrong for them to be in love or live a life such as you and me. I do not understand why christians say that gay men and women are not "right". What is right? They go to church, the believe in God, they want to be allowed in to the peraly gates. God created all of us, did he not? I think it is funny how we can forgive a man that has killed because he is NOW a man (or woman) of God, but we think that same sex relationships are meant for hell...correct me if I am wrong, but did God not create the murdered and the Gays??? Gay ppl do not choose to be the way that they are, trust me. They did not choose to be ridiculed and shot at and made fun of and kicked around. Why do so many ppl live there life unhappy?? Because they want to come out and admit that they are gay, but our society will not allow that to happen, so they continue to live in fear and in depression. My best friend whom is gay was almost KILLED by a man who was offended that he looked at him, when he walked up behind him in the dark. I would have done the same thing if I would have heard someone behind me in the dark, but I probably would not have spent the next week in a hospital bed waiting for Kidneys to heal and my face to go back down either. All of that to say that as Christians we need to stop nbeing so damn judgmental.....Gay people happen to be people too who happen to deserve to love the same way hetorosexuals do!!!!!!!!
Christopher
It is unfortunate that people always assume that anyone who is opposed to "gay rights" hates gay people and must be a war monger who loves to go gay bashing. In point of fact my bible says to love thy neighbor as thy self, this includes gay people and I do, it does not say support the wrongs they choose to practice. For the record the bible does say that homosexuality is wrong and as such it is contrary to the biblical principal to support it. The bible is true or false and picking and choosing the parts that support your views doesn't work. For the record I have no respect for anyone who would attack a person, or kill a person, for looking at them be they gay, straight, or undecided. that to is wrong and that person would not be ok in my book cause they got saved. I would love them and still recognize that people are responsible for their actions and so they can be loved all the way to jail. I am offended that you would judge me for asking only that biblical principal be adhered to, and then tell me not to be so damn judgemental. I never at any point said that gays didn't deserve the right to drive, the right to walk, the right to breathe, or otherwise, I said they should not be entitled to enter into a thoelogic institution as part of a theology that clearly states that homosexuality is wrong. I would really like for you to call me so that we can discuss this as it is clear that you failed to comprehend the full concept of my statement.
Christopher
Rob Hitchcock
Time to address a couple things not mentioned.
First off, very well thought out arguments Chris.
Secondly, one of the founding philosophies of law for most nations including our own is that individuals should be free to do as they please provided that they are not harming themselves or others. Hence, you have outrage over seatbelt laws--who cares if you aren't harming anybody and, at least, putting only yourself at comparable risk in the event of an accident where you might likely be injured anyway? The issue that most have with gay marriage, other than tax entitlements (I'll address that later), is the "harmlessness" of it all. Now, if are to believe that the commandments of the Bible are for our own good, then why is a digression from traditional religious marriage harmful?
As Christians, it is our job to feed the Word to people and let them decide for themselves whether or not they want to accept it. Now, aside from the argument already mentioned (that I support) that gay 'marriage' is offensive because it is a mockery of what God had originally set up for man and woman, I could care less what unbelievers do.
Proverbs 23:17- Let not thine heart envy sinners: but be thou in the fear of the LORD all the day long.
What I AM concerned about it how gay marriage affects Christians; and it does.
Gay marriage is indicative of a pro-gay society that not only accepts, but embraces a sin. The marriage aspect of it muddies the water of Biblical truth and worldly truth, and we can already see in some dioscies (sp?) that gayness is getting supported in the mainstream chruch. This can only lead to an even greater lack of reverence to what God says, and more of a slant toward what man says. Secondly, gay marriage seems to provide the open door for the white picket fence lifestyle that many gays in our day and time have yet to see. Essentially, a healthy and equal medium of social equality with straight marriages...or, in the viewpoint of say, a teen or adult struggling with same sex issues, a way out. This is the greatest harm that gay marriage can do to Christianity. This once again shows man's wisdom taking significance over God's...and rather than seeking church or believer-related support for struggles such as these, one who deals with homosexual issues would be more inclined to 'accept himself' and go on with the opportunity for equal lifestyle than turn to help from God. Honestly, if eating lobster were still a sin in our day and age, it would be much harder to abstain from it :) in light of the fact that Pappas Grill cooks some kickass lobster. Hopefully I'm getting my point across.
As for taxes, this is where I agree with the liberals. In most cases, only same-sex marriage can provide the benefits of insurance and tax breaks that come hand in hand with straight married couples. Even civil unions don't usually provide this. And so long as 'marriage' is the only way to obtain these tax breaks, then Constitutionally, gays, blacks, mexicans, etc should all be entitled to 'marriage'. Marriage and the state having a union such as this is an example of how a lack of separation of church and state is a very unhealthy thing. I believe that people living under the same roof and sharing income, married or not, should be entitled to equal tax breaks. Unfortunately, a marriage document is usually the only way to obtain it. And no matter what way you slice it, it is discrimination at this point. I would rather have God's laws upheld and the Constitution not upheld, but I would most prefer to have both be upheld. The solution? Don't make a "marriage" the only way to obtain equal tax breaks. If this happens, the gay marriage supporters simply have no case whatsoever, other than pride. But that's not much of a case.
Christopher
Precisely! In Matthew 22 when Christ is asked which is the most important commandment in the law he gives 2 responses. First love God, second love thy neighbor as thyself. I do indeed love the person, it is only the act that I abhor. As such I would not want to deprive someone of the financial rights that they should have under the law. The government has the opportunity to create, within a same-sex constitutional ammendment, a legal institution that would offer the same fiscal benefits and rights without imposing the misinterpretation of the law, by a few judges, on the whole of Christianity.
Christopher
I will try to avoid my usual rant... lol. But there is something I would like for you to consider on this topic. I am personally opposed to gay rights. However, I can set that aside and would in fact be able to tolerate "civil unions". Here is the point often missed by the liberals who call those opposed to gay "marriage" homophobic. A civil union is a binding contract set forth between two persons and the government. A marriage is not dissimilar to a civil union with one major exception. Marriage is not a secular and legal institution, which happens to be recognized by theology. It is, in fact, the other way around. Marriage is a theological institution recognized by government. As such the only entity that should be permitted to define marriage is the church not the government, & not the courts. Governmental authority and the religious authority are two independent entities that recognize one another. Police officers and firemen recognize one one another's jurisdiction and authority, but that doesn't mean that a police chief can determine that the fire dept. can't use water to fight fire cause he has seen C.A.F.S. and likes it. It would still be the responsibility of the FD to select a method of extinguishment. A constitutional amendment banning gay marriage is nothing more than a police chief (the central government) telling his patrolmen (local politicians & judges) that they aren't firemen (clergy), so don't try to run the fire department. Allowing gay marriage is indeed offensive to me as it conflicts with my biblical belief that homosexuality is wrong as is clearly stated in Leviticus.
Let it be known that I am just as opposed to divorce, as I am to gay marriage. Fifty-five hour marriages are ridiculous. I am far from a model citizen or a model Christian but I am not the standard of truth.
p.s. Truth be told in my personal opinion I am opposed to gay civil unions as well as gay marriage, but I will not fight civil unions as they are a secular union set forth by the government and as such the government has the right to set its own parameters by which it operates, just as the church should have the same right.
By the way thanks for the congrats on my son! We are both so excited words can't even begin to scratch the surface of how we feel! If this argument seems a little scattered it is cause it is midnight and I am trying to type one handed with Christian in my arms... lol
Christopher
This was written to a firefighter, so for those who aren't firefighters allow me to explain a couple of things. 1st, when on the scene of a fire the property is in fact the full property of the on scene fire department until they release that scene. If you call the fire department to your home for a smell of smoke the fire department fully owns your home till they release it to you. This is where the police recognize the fire departments authority.
And C.A.F.S. stands for Compressed Air Foam System. C.A.F.S. is a relatively new tool in firefighting and it is quite effective but it is not the end-all way to fight fire. Sometimes water is the best tool, sometimes C.A.F.S., sometime dry chemical, it is all dependant on what resources are available and what the situation dictates
Katie McAllister
Christopher you never stop amazing me. That was very well written. Thank you for tonight. I am still hurting but its helped some. I know that in time I will be ok. I love you to death. God bless you.
~Nicole~
I must say that I did NOT read this whole thing cause I am trying to cook dinner, but I must say you write very well. Anyways, I guess we all have our very own opinion about life in general and all that falls under that catergorey. Anyway...I think that Gay men and women have hearts and have feelings like every other human alive (well most of us anyways) and I think that if they want to call what they have a marriage or by God do it....then more power to them! Who am I or you to tell these people that it is wrong for them to be in love or live a life such as you and me. I do not understand why christians say that gay men and women are not "right". What is right? They go to church, the believe in God, they want to be allowed in to the peraly gates. God created all of us, did he not? I think it is funny how we can forgive a man that has killed because he is NOW a man (or woman) of God, but we think that same sex relationships are meant for hell...correct me if I am wrong, but did God not create the murdered and the Gays??? Gay ppl do not choose to be the way that they are, trust me. They did not choose to be ridiculed and shot at and made fun of and kicked around. Why do so many ppl live there life unhappy?? Because they want to come out and admit that they are gay, but our society will not allow that to happen, so they continue to live in fear and in depression. My best friend whom is gay was almost KILLED by a man who was offended that he looked at him, when he walked up behind him in the dark. I would have done the same thing if I would have heard someone behind me in the dark, but I probably would not have spent the next week in a hospital bed waiting for Kidneys to heal and my face to go back down either. All of that to say that as Christians we need to stop nbeing so damn judgmental.....Gay people happen to be people too who happen to deserve to love the same way hetorosexuals do!!!!!!!!
Christopher
It is unfortunate that people always assume that anyone who is opposed to "gay rights" hates gay people and must be a war monger who loves to go gay bashing. In point of fact my bible says to love thy neighbor as thy self, this includes gay people and I do, it does not say support the wrongs they choose to practice. For the record the bible does say that homosexuality is wrong and as such it is contrary to the biblical principal to support it. The bible is true or false and picking and choosing the parts that support your views doesn't work. For the record I have no respect for anyone who would attack a person, or kill a person, for looking at them be they gay, straight, or undecided. that to is wrong and that person would not be ok in my book cause they got saved. I would love them and still recognize that people are responsible for their actions and so they can be loved all the way to jail. I am offended that you would judge me for asking only that biblical principal be adhered to, and then tell me not to be so damn judgemental. I never at any point said that gays didn't deserve the right to drive, the right to walk, the right to breathe, or otherwise, I said they should not be entitled to enter into a thoelogic institution as part of a theology that clearly states that homosexuality is wrong. I would really like for you to call me so that we can discuss this as it is clear that you failed to comprehend the full concept of my statement.
Christopher
Rob Hitchcock
Time to address a couple things not mentioned.
First off, very well thought out arguments Chris.
Secondly, one of the founding philosophies of law for most nations including our own is that individuals should be free to do as they please provided that they are not harming themselves or others. Hence, you have outrage over seatbelt laws--who cares if you aren't harming anybody and, at least, putting only yourself at comparable risk in the event of an accident where you might likely be injured anyway? The issue that most have with gay marriage, other than tax entitlements (I'll address that later), is the "harmlessness" of it all. Now, if are to believe that the commandments of the Bible are for our own good, then why is a digression from traditional religious marriage harmful?
As Christians, it is our job to feed the Word to people and let them decide for themselves whether or not they want to accept it. Now, aside from the argument already mentioned (that I support) that gay 'marriage' is offensive because it is a mockery of what God had originally set up for man and woman, I could care less what unbelievers do.
Proverbs 23:17- Let not thine heart envy sinners: but be thou in the fear of the LORD all the day long.
What I AM concerned about it how gay marriage affects Christians; and it does.
Gay marriage is indicative of a pro-gay society that not only accepts, but embraces a sin. The marriage aspect of it muddies the water of Biblical truth and worldly truth, and we can already see in some dioscies (sp?) that gayness is getting supported in the mainstream chruch. This can only lead to an even greater lack of reverence to what God says, and more of a slant toward what man says. Secondly, gay marriage seems to provide the open door for the white picket fence lifestyle that many gays in our day and time have yet to see. Essentially, a healthy and equal medium of social equality with straight marriages...or, in the viewpoint of say, a teen or adult struggling with same sex issues, a way out. This is the greatest harm that gay marriage can do to Christianity. This once again shows man's wisdom taking significance over God's...and rather than seeking church or believer-related support for struggles such as these, one who deals with homosexual issues would be more inclined to 'accept himself' and go on with the opportunity for equal lifestyle than turn to help from God. Honestly, if eating lobster were still a sin in our day and age, it would be much harder to abstain from it :) in light of the fact that Pappas Grill cooks some kickass lobster. Hopefully I'm getting my point across.
As for taxes, this is where I agree with the liberals. In most cases, only same-sex marriage can provide the benefits of insurance and tax breaks that come hand in hand with straight married couples. Even civil unions don't usually provide this. And so long as 'marriage' is the only way to obtain these tax breaks, then Constitutionally, gays, blacks, mexicans, etc should all be entitled to 'marriage'. Marriage and the state having a union such as this is an example of how a lack of separation of church and state is a very unhealthy thing. I believe that people living under the same roof and sharing income, married or not, should be entitled to equal tax breaks. Unfortunately, a marriage document is usually the only way to obtain it. And no matter what way you slice it, it is discrimination at this point. I would rather have God's laws upheld and the Constitution not upheld, but I would most prefer to have both be upheld. The solution? Don't make a "marriage" the only way to obtain equal tax breaks. If this happens, the gay marriage supporters simply have no case whatsoever, other than pride. But that's not much of a case.
Christopher
Precisely! In Matthew 22 when Christ is asked which is the most important commandment in the law he gives 2 responses. First love God, second love thy neighbor as thyself. I do indeed love the person, it is only the act that I abhor. As such I would not want to deprive someone of the financial rights that they should have under the law. The government has the opportunity to create, within a same-sex constitutional ammendment, a legal institution that would offer the same fiscal benefits and rights without imposing the misinterpretation of the law, by a few judges, on the whole of Christianity.
Christopher
posted by Christopher at 12:26 PM
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